How Many Orcs can a Fighter Chop if a Fighter Could Chop Orcs Chop Chop

One of the most interesting facets to compare about editions is how the high level fighter as relates to the world around them.

In earlier variations of D&D a high level fighter while scary was was still recognizable as human instead of a second string member of the Justice League.

Let me explain

Assuming Max at Level 1 , Greyhawk Average Hit points and a 16 Con such a fighter in B/X or LL has has around 78 A 2e fighter would have around 88 hit points and a Pathfinder Fighter has around 121

In each case Orc still has about 6hp.

One on one the difference is small, the orc has no chance. However the big differences here come in fighting multiple foes,

For B/X or LL guy a gang of orcs is scary, say a troop of 20. LL guy will get aced around Orc 17,

late 2e guy will be able to drop around 80 (he can kill 5 per round)

and 3x guy assuming similar “Orcish wave” tactics and decent feats even against the nastier Pathfinder orcs can get near to 200!

Even at super high levels LL guy can only manage another 5 or 6, while 2e guy gets another 25 or 30.

Whats even more “whoa!” is that Pathfinder guy in addition to being able to handle an extra hundred or so he can extend this combat ability to much bigger nasties and is able to cleave his way through things like bugbears and even ogres.

At "near max" level 19 in Pathfinder with decent magic items, no reasonable amount of orcs are actually a threat as even when they hit only 1 time in 20, most of the attacks bounce of the DR 8 (Adamantium Full Plate!)

Now don't get me wrong here, this is not a criticism of 3x or Pathfinder there is a place for both style of gaming in my book, its why we support Pathfinder and Labyrinth Lord alike. Both are a heck of a lot of fun.

What it comes down to is making sure you select the right game for your group and most importantly, having fun.

What Abilities Should an Old School Fighter Have

Its a trickier question than it seems.

The obvious things access to the all weapons and armor and having the best combat abilities.

To my mind the best published fighters are the Late 2e one and the Pathfinder one (with only slight moods)

The Late 2e fighter got

Access to Weapon Specialization
Usually had a Style Specialization (a few slots here were awesome)
Multiple attacks
Good saves especially at high level
and by the time players options came out doubled attacks vs 1hd or less monsters

The Pathfinder fighter can be seen in all its glory here and it is bar none my favorite of all the D20 fighters.

If you want a "great fighter thats still just a regular guy" You won't go wrong with the Labyrinth Lord fighter. Its solid and playable but even at high level still just an ordinary guy.

If used with Fighters with Flair and a good set of background rules, you get a very nice fighter that is quick to roll up, down to earth but still fun and easy to play.

House Rules (LL) Bucklers

Probably my biggest complaint with the shield rules in LL and the other old school derived games is the general worthlessness of shields and bucklers.

A shield grants a measly 5% to AC which fails to show just how effective the item really is. A good shield is a torso sized defense thats mobile and has both offensive and defensive capabilities. Its such a good defense it is still in use today as a riot control tool (vs hth and thrown weapons) and as a ballistic shield vs firearms.

The question remains then, how to fix it without screwing the system up. Well fixing shields is pretty difficult (although I like this rule at Trollsmyth) but I do have some ideas on a fix for the buckler.

The buckler was THE preeminent defensive tool from about 1100 to 1600 or so, half a millennium (source) , almost as long as the gun has been #1 on offense. This is a matter of weight and convenience and the fact the weapon was simply handy to use.

To make the buckler more interesting w/o cluttering up the rules here are suggestions

#1 Fighters, Thieves and Clerics all get proficiency

#2 Treat it as an off hand weapon. Anyone proficient with it can strike with the buckler instead of a primary weapon at no penalty for 1d4 damage. This can come in handy when someone is disarmed or faces some nasty critter that say only takes damage from blunt weapons.

#3 A buckler user always gains +1 (plus any magic bonus) to AC and said magic bonus does count when used to strike a target just as if it was a a weapon.

#4 If using "Fighters with Flair" from Arkratic Wizardy or Knockspell #1 a buckler may be used with shield master or swashbuckler style but not both simultaneously This actually does a nice job of allowing the buckler to function much as it does historically and is an added bonus for those who like verisimilitude

And Now There Are Five

Five Old School magazines that is


Footprints

Knockspell

Fight On!

OD&DITIES

and Oubliette .

Of these the only ones I have experience with are OD&DITIES, which has the 1st twelve issues free at Alderson's Tower or Dragonsfoot and,
Footprints both of which were very good highly recommended and best of all, absolutely free.

What amazes me more than anything about the OSR is the shear creativity of its member base. We are as a small group putting out support material in numbers that would have made TSR back in the old 1e days green with envy.

Partially this is of course the technology of today ,publishing is much easier and has a lower cost of entry, but the rest of it is us. We have the attitude, the creativity and the sense of wonder, just as much, maybe more than we did back then.

Of in case anyone wonders why I am so behind. All my Ka-Ching$ are called for.

When that lets up, I'll play catch up...

In Praise of Race as Class Addendum, 2e and 3x

Interestingly this idea resurfaced in 2e as a set optional rules in the DMG as well as a fleshed out example in the complete thieves handbook. Of course like the systems before it, it required some care on the part of the DM.

For those of who liked the Players Option stuff, the rules there were a variant as well. I found them a bit unbalanced and they just felt wrong but they weren't exactly bad rules by my measure.

3x multi classing is pretty different but it to ran into similar problem both with high level adjustment races and with certain multi class combinations fighter/caster and rogue/caster in particular.

I've seen this idea reapplied (in my opinion poorly) in Savage Species for races and in 3rd party products such as Second Look: Arcane Trickster and in some alternate classes in Green Ronin's Advanced Players Manual

Using these "multi class" classes and "races as classes" instead of prestige classes deals away with the old "start you planning at level 1" issue that plagues 3x. Throw in a few flavorful variants and you have a really good set up that has all the bells and whistles 3x offers with a heap less complexity in character generation.

In Praise of Race as Class

It took me a long time to come around to how good the the B/X-Lab Lord idea of race as class actually is.

The thing I think that always held me back is that thee is only one class for each race, Halfling, Dwarf, Elf and while fine its dull as dishwater and can lead to very little variety.

While later editions separated race and class this lead to the miserable excuses for a multi classing systems and all sorts of class limits on races. In other words, more complexity for little gain.

Whats needed to make that system zing are multiple races as classes.

Instead of just Halfling, how about Halfling , Halfling Thornwalker (a ranger kinda thing) Halfling Guardian, Halfling Herbalist Halfling Bounder and so?

Break the racial abilities down into points using the ODDites system (issue #7 here) , Dragon 109 or the one on Bree Yark and then graft on what abilities its class should have.

This gives you simplicity and flavor all at once and makes D&D into a kind of best of point buy with all that flexibility but in the hands of the DM to reduce the potential for min-max abuse and class level.

This can also easily solve the multi class dilemma. Want a Fighter/Magic User?. Fine here is the class XP table for the abilities that this class should have in my campaign. It keeps chargen just as fast as B/X while opening up a lot of new options.

The idea of course is hardly new, having first appeared as the Crabaugh method in Dragon #109 and of course we saw some aspects of this in the B/X Gazetteers with the Forester and Rake classes.

Still used carefully it solves a lot of problems and adds a lot of fun.

Sorry for the slow posts

I've been hard at work on some cool projects for y'all . Some of them will be free and others will be for sale eventually .

I think you folks like them.